First Things First

The PGF is the most unique organization in professional grappling. They have a draft, a fantasy league, and a lot of prize money. I had to learn more, so I interviewed PGF founder, Brandon Mccaghren.

If you want a glimpse of where the sport of no gi jiujitsu is headed you have to read this.

Let’s start at the top. Can you give us some background on the PGF? Anything that you think that’s important for people to know?

Yeah sure. The PGF is very much unlike the traditional one night tournament. It’s a season, it’s a league. There are more storylines. More for fans to watch and appreciate the way athletes go about their business. I’m a huge NBA fan. When I’m not watching jiujitsu I’m watching the NBA.

Yeah? Who’s your team?

The Bulls man! The Bulls. And right now we’re fighting for a 9th seed to get into the playoffs. But, despite that, I still watch every game!

When you do a one night tournament, that doesn’t allow for people to fall in love with the stories. In one PGF season you get six times the exposure for fans and sponsors. It’s sticky.

That’s a really good point. Do you watch professional MMA? Are you paying attention to what the PFL is doing?

Yeah. With MMA it’s hard to tell the story in a season. You only get to fight once a night, every couple of months. I love the idea but it’s hard to tell the story.

One thing that the PFL does that I love is the stats. That's fun for stat dorks like me!

Can you tell us a little bit more about the content you’re planning to tell the stories? I saw the countdown, but what else are you doing?

So we did a documentary for season five as well, and we hired a pro crew for this season. There will be a pattern moving forward. Every season will have a pre-season countdown, the season, and then a documentary.

Content is the name of the game man. I got the content and the analytics to prove it. No one can compete with the amount of content we have.

Okay so I don’t want to pry too much into personal shit, but where is the money for all this coming from?

You can pry. I’ll say what I feel comfortable saying.

Do you have investors, a TV deal, are you selling merch? Where is the money coming from?

Yeah we have stuff available. But that’s not that much. We’re on FightPass.

Why did you go with Fight Pass?

We got a very good deal from FightPass. I think we got the best deal of any grappling promotion. But that’s because we have so much content. Only the finale is on Fight Pass. Everything else is free content. Only the finale is behind a paywall.

Think about it. The NFL, the NBA; they’re not behind a paywall. When you put everything behind a paywall you limit your sponsors!

We put out everything on my Youtube, the UFC’s Youtube, and Caffeine TV. Have you heard of Caffeine TV?

No. What’s that?

It’s a streaming app and website. They do really niche sports like breakdancing and rap battles. It’s cool dude. They have 60 million users. Anytime you open the Caffeine TV you see PGF right there.

Dude, last season we were getting 300,000 users a night. When you show that to a sponsor you’re golden.

But I should say the cost was backed by Zoltan (Bathory). When he put in his money I was scared to death to be honest. But now it’s looking good.

Yeah, I mean, I saw that, and was like, ‘How the fuck are they gonna pay this guy back?’

I know! What jiujitsu guy wouldn’t think the same thing!? But we’ve already paid him back.

How?

Our sponsors and our streaming deal.

Who are the sponsors?

Well I can’t say who the sponsors are yet… actually I can tell you one. I can tell you the title sponsor. Have you ever heard of Once Upon A Coconut?

No. Is that like coconut water?

That’s it. Coconut water. They have Daymond John and Dana White. They have some heavy players involved.

How did you get these partners?

That’s what happens when you have a rockstar and a Gracie on the team! Zo brings in the real companies.

How did you get hooked up with them?

He’s a jiujitsu guy!

…Yeah, but, like, how did you meet him? There are a lot of jiujitsu guys.

Okay so you know how when Shaq plays basketball he wants to play point guard?

Yeah…

Well Zo plays music but he wishes he was a jiujitsu guy.

Yeah and all of us wish we were musicians.

Yeah exactly. But he is a real martial artist. He is a black belt. He’s been in judo since he was 8 years old. He’s a jiujitsu guy at the end of the day.

You know how jiujitsu guys are. They meet each other and they’re putting hands on each other. Me and you meet and we’ll be putting hands on each other in the middle of the Publix!

Definitely, but how did you get connected with him?

So he owns part of Epic Roll and they ended up sponsoring one of the teams for season 5. The owner, Matt Wahlstrom, he hit me up and goes, “Can I bring Zo?”

Dude of course you can bring the rock star.

Zo comes off tour. Like not ended tour but he had a week off and goes, ‘Okay I’ll hang out in Alabama for a week’. At the end of day three he fell in love with it. And he brought Grace Gracie to the table as well. My life is crazy right now dude.

Right now I work with the UFC. Like I’m on an employment contract with the UFC and my business is in Las Vegas as well but I live in Alabama. I’m living like a rock star right now, flying back and forth, but I’m a redneck everywhere I go.

Yeah it’s like that cliche, “It takes five years to be an overnight success.”

That’s it dude.

I was a little unclear on what the prize is for the PGF. You’re giving out $100,000?

100 grand is the team prize. I think the total prize pie is like 155? Everyone on the winning team gets stem cells too. That’s not included in the money.

Oh that’s awesome.

Yeah man, isn’t that cool? The winner of the tournament gets an extra 20k and coaches get paid a flat rate. Every athlete gets flat rate too. Even last place gets money.

What do you think about all of the recent comments about pay in the sport? It seems like the goal of PGF is to put money in peoples’ pockets.

I mean, that’s one of the goals. But I want to build something that has a legacy to it for when I’m gone. That’s the real goal. I want to make something for the whole community.

I love jiujitsu with my whole heart. We all love it and it means something to all of us. Jiujitsu fans just feel addicted to it. That’s why we have the fantasy league. That’s why the tagline is, “Everything you love about sports, plus jiujitsu”.

If you’re an Alabama fan you’re a fan all week long. If you’re a jiujitsu guy, you’re a jiujitsu guy all week long. That’s what I’m trying to build.

We have a draft, fantasy league, two podcasts, and tons of content. We’ve been building the league since season 1. I’ve been doing it out of my back pocket. I just thought, ‘Let’s just build it and have a placeholder for it. As it grows, we’ll improve every aspect.’

So do you have any thoughts about athlete pay in general?

Umm yeah…I kind of do. I feel like, look…I understand where everyone is coming from, but I also feel like it’s a little unfair as well.

Mo’s objective, from the outside looking in, and I haven’t talked to him about this, has not been to professionalize jiujitsu. I think his goal has been to make the most epic weekend, see who's the best, and put on a big show for jiujitsu. 

Look, if we want to see who the best is I’ll just call Gordon up, ask him his address, and make the check out to him.

The last thing I would want to do is criticize ADCC. I don’t have anything critical to say. What Mo has done for the sport has been incredible. No one can sell tickets like ADCC can. No one.

Our event is private. You have to be invited. We’re not even trying to compete on that. They’re a completely different thing and they’re the best at what they do.

When I look at what Mo does…it’s a labor of love. He doesn’t take a dollar off of it. And look what it was before Mo! At best it was a marginal sport. I feel like everyone should feel grateful for what Mo has done.

I get the criticisms, but I don’t share them myself. We pay every athlete but we just do it differently because we have a totally different objective.

I’m grateful for ADCC and I don’t have anything critical to say. I want to make sure Mo is an ally as a good guy in jiujitsu. I love everything they’re doing, I’m a major fan of ADCC, I don’t want Mo to think anything else.

Look, I don’t have to do this. I don’t need to do PGF. But I have the opportunity to give my own time back and I feel like this is something important.

We’re all going to benefit from it. We’re all going to grow.

So what’s holding it back right now? Actually, I think there are two separate questions. What’s holding the sport back in terms of participation, and professional jiujitsu?

What’s holding participation back? Nothing. Nothing is holding that back. As a guy that owns an academy I don’t think anything is holding that back.

Okay, what’s holding the sport back and what’s the ceiling for professional jiujitsu?

If we can’t get on ESPN but they got Pickleball on…I mean, come on man.

Yeah dude I was just at a bachelor party this weekend and they had fucking co-ed all star dodgeball on TV! Literally on ESPN The Ocho.

Yeah dude it’s crazy.

So, everyone is trying to copy the UFC one night tournament model. We’ve seen how far that can go. I just think there is a lack of creativity from a lot of the promotions.

There’s also a lack of integrity. I don’t think that’s universal by any stretch. But you see what people are doing and it doesn’t always make dollars and sense. Being a good dude doesn’t always get it over the finish line. I’m not even saying I’m that guy. I am a good guy and I have something that at least makes sense.

We’re going to get on ESPN. What does that look like? How far down the road? Will I still be around? I don’t know, but the PGF is going to make it.

We'll all win. That’s the real goal.

No one has really set out to do that yet that has the means. No one with the vision, and I don’t know why.

What is the long term vision for The PGF?

The long term vision is a season over the course of four weeks with people competing on Friday nights instead of just one week. It will be nationwide with four conferences. 16 athletes per conference and the top two per conference go to the Super Bowl.

How would you do that? Would you have regional gyms?

Yeah probably. We’d fly everyone in for the end though. That’s probably five years down the road.

Is data analytics ever going to make it to the sport?

We’re bringing analytics this season! We track 12 games each season and look at all the submissions, takedowns, passes, kills, breaks, and sweeps. We track all of the points; you get six for a choke, three for a joint lock, and an extra point if you get a submission in a minute. If you draw you get zero. Let me tell you some of the interesting stats.

Last season we had 19 torreandos. One out of five arm drags were successful, and knee on belly had 0 subs.

You know that guy Chandler from Reddit? He’s got a blog on jiujitsu trends.

Yeah I’ve seen his work.

We commissioned him and he sits to keep stats in real time.

That’s cool. You know it’s interesting, you’re the only promotion that made something I need to go back to. If I want to watch matches, I’ll just find a good match. I don’t care if it’s PGF, EBI, WNO, or ADCC. But with the fantasy I have to go back to the PGF multiple times. It’s a good idea.

That’s right brother.

Well how can people support you and The PGF?

Sign-up for fantasy league! We’re giving out $1000 to the fan that wins.

But support with your viewership. I want your eyeballs, I want your attention. I can take your attention and turn them into dollars. There’s one other thing I want to say.

I’m super thankful for everyone that supported PGF along the way. I've been working it out of my back pocket. No money came back to the people that worked it. No way we could have been in this position to do season 6 without all of those people. Now we have people from all over the world that are fans of the league. No other promotion has that.

Thank you and I love you to everyone that’s been supporting.

Further Viewing & Three Stories Might Have Missed

Share & Support Open Note Grappling